Finishing Line Press (FLP) operates a little too similarly to an MLM. You're encouraged to bring in your friends. Think: Cutco Knives, Tupperware parties, Mary Kay, Primerica, Herbalife, the list goes on. Basic concepts that make an MLM an MLM include that the person making sales is not a company employee. Instead, they are selling a product or service to others on behalf of the company.
Disagree with your assessment here. This isn't actually how MLMs work—for it to be that, you'd have to be responsible for finding more authors, not just selling books. And FLP does select authors based on merit. Authors are always responsible for sales with a small press; they just built what's standard into a system that functions in a sustainable way and are up-front about it. They minimize their own risk and incentivize the authors for doing the work that they'd be asked to do at any press anyway, and that allows them to exist without relying on the contest model.
I do think they over-price their books, and the sustainability they've built into their model incentivizes them to publish too many authors, so there are downsides. But if you want a distributed book and don't want to spend your life burning cash on contests, they're a good thing. That's what I tell people when they ask. If you are a young person hoping to have a pipe-dream career and become a tenured Pulitzer Prize-winning poet, it's better to wait. But if you're more interested in just having the actual book in your hands and for sale, but don't want to do the work of self-publishing, it's a good deal.
I have a little note in the piece calling attention to them falling short on full on MLM since they don't incentivize you to get more authors on board.
I'm surprised this is your position about FLP being merit-based... Their acceptance rate is absurdly high from the stats I've seen.
Agreed, they do overprice their books.
Overall, I don't think we're on opposite sides of this. I don't think operations related to this should not exist... I'd rather see poets not default to FLP when there are loads and loads of other small press options.
If you want to get out a book quickly (as has been discussed on The Poetry Space__) there's always self-publication.
Hybrid publication can make sense for some.
It all depends on what the individual is looking for. My sense is that too often poets don't know what they really want out of publication. With that in mind, I think operations like FLP swoop in. "Here's an easy solution," they seem to say.
I like this statement a lot:
"If you are a young person hoping to have a pipe-dream career and become a tenured Pulitzer Prize-winning poet, it's better to wait. But if you're more interested in just having the actual book in your hands and for sale, but don't want to do the work of self-publishing, it's a good deal."
What is the acceptance rate? And how many books do they publish per year, do you know?
I've read a good number of their books, and don't see the quality is lacking relative to what other presses are publishing really (though I do think we publish way too many books and the vast majority are boring enough to make for a watered down gruel of an industry ... but they don't seem any worse in this regard than anywhere else).
I hadn't come across this interview before with Leah Maines, Publisher of FLP.
Tim, you and I are both very fond of chapbooks. I'm not used to hearing FLP books categorized this way. That would be positive if price-structured accordingly. Unfortunately, this looks like double talk. There is mention of publishing "over 100 chapbooks a year" and then just a few questions later, "Actually, we publish over 100 books per year." My takeaway is that they'll call the "book" whatever anyone wants depending on the question asked.
I don't have enough data on the acceptance percentage. I saw Kelsay books has ~90% acceptance on Duotrope (though limited submission info is available). I expect it's similar. I'd be eager to from others about their experience. Frankly, I'd be very interested to hear work about work that was turned down by FLP.
I am mixed on presses like FLP. So many of my friends have cranked out books here – some of very low quality both in the feel of the collection (I know folks who just take their last 100 poems and submit those as a "collection") and the copy editing. They saturate the market with supply of books and, much like instagram poets, define the market down in a way that I think is troubling.
That said, the urge to publish seems almost a biological imperative and FLP help folks find that outlet. And there are a number of fine poets, with all the right credentials and awards and prior pubs, who just want get a book out there without the two or three year wait they might face with their traditional high-status publishers. I am holding a fine FLP volume in hand from poet Dan Bellm. It is a treasure of a collection from an excellent poet. And yes, it is blurbed by Ilya Kaminsky and Alicia Ostriker.
Finishing Line Press is not an MLM. FLP has never asked authors to recruit other writers. FLP does not ask writers to pay anything for publishing or promoting their books. FLP is upfront with those they accept by telling them they are expected to let people know they have a book forthcoming. They don’t ask authors to pay for advertising. They just ask authors to let people know (via social media and word of mouth) that the book is forthcoming. As a small press, they don’t have a large advertising budget. However, FLP does run paid ads on social media for every book they publish. I know this because I am the one who pays for the ads.
FLP rejects far more books than they accept. At one point the acceptance rate was 8%; however, that might not be the rate now.
The endorsements are for the books published. However, I do have some endorsements for my work at FLP:
"Having a book accepted is a stressful time. Leah Maines made the procedure easy and painless. Her instructions were easy to follow and she answered my questions fully. It was a pleasure working with her and her crew at Finishing Line Press." ~James Fowler
Leah Maines is the intrepid publisher of Finishing Line Press, perhaps the premier independent chapbook poetry house in the United States at this time. Innovative, but solidly grounded in her vision and organization, she has created a fine press and allowed it to flourish under her wise guidance. I have written a number of jacket comments for books she has selected, and it has been my privilege to endorse her writers. ~Molly Peacock
I started FLP in 2000 as a way to promote and publish poetry. As a mixed-race LatinX woman, my focus has been to publish underrepresented voices of the day: women, LBGTQ+ people, and people of color. When I first started publishing books, the majority of those being published were old white men. I wanted to do my part to change that. I hope I have been successful.
My goal has never been to scam anyone or take advantage of anyone. My goal was to publish poetry. I’ve always been very upfront about the need to do self promotion. In fact, I wrote the section: The Business of Poetry: The Art of Self-Promotion in the book The Craft & Business Of Writing: Essential Tools For Writing Success (Writers Digest Books) way back in 2008. The editors of Writers Digest Books approached me to write this section because of the success FLP has had in selling poetry books. At no time have I ever asked any of our authors to pay for advertising or pay for their book’s production costs. There is absolutely no cost to the author. I’ve just been honest for the need to let people know they have a book forthcoming.
Please forgive me if there are typos or poor grammar above. I had a stroke in 2012, and I’m not 100% any longer. However, I felt the need to comment. (No, I no longer do any editing for FLP. We have other, more skilled, editors for that. I just read the manuscripts. I’m still capable of determining work of merit.)
Thank you for taking the time to write this thorough response. I fully appreciate your words and what you've shared.
Very interesting to hear that, at one point, the acceptance rate was 8%.
After writing this piece, I've had several illuminating conversations. One major takeaway is that many poets really truly just want to publish their work to share with their literary friends. Many have said that working with FLP is a good experience and that that, especially for the aforementioned purpose, FLP produces a high quality product at a good value. Given the expenses common in both hybrid and self-publishing, I think FLP offers a terrific service to those seeking to get their work out in the world.
Given your work with FLP, I respect that you are protective of your authors and stand behind the work that you have deemed meritorious enough to publish.
I remain interested in hearing more. I'd especially like to hear from other small press editors. The number of books that FLP puts out in a year is atypical and I wonder about the process.
I’m sorry to say, but most of what you described falls under the heading of standard book publicity. Just as a journalist and editor, from the PR and marketing side, I can tell you that most book publishers expect their authors to also be promoters of their work. That’s especially true for small publishers with small audiences, since they skimp on marketing in favor of production. I actually started building a following online years ago so that publishers would be more interested if I ever want to publish a book. That strategy has succeeded pretty well, even without the book.
To be honest, poetry books, small rock shows, community theater; pretty much anything artistic without grant backing, has long been MLM-like when it comes to business. The most common purchasers of poetry books? People who attend readings. Who doesn’t invite their family, friends and loved ones to their readings? It sucks, and I prefer nonprofit, but it’s the business side of art. It’s really always sucked.
You made a really good point about the value of readings and the similarity to selling merch at shows (for musicians/bands) and certainty (as an aside) exhibitions for visual artists. That being said, for poets, the material is often family-unfriendly that it can be tough to sell books to people who are in-group.
Based on many recent conversations, I'm sold on FLP (even given calling it a book mill) for the sake of being able to hand physical copies to those in your sphere who want to keep up with your personal journey in the arts. My concerns remain about pre-sales and the price of FLP books being too high.
I've had three chapbooks published by FLP over the past seven years. They do have a high acceptance rate, probably in the neighborhood of 65%. But I have poet colleagues whose work they've rejected. I would also like to respond to several points Mark made. 1) Their books are perhaps somewhat overpriced, but printing costs have risen, just like everything else. 2) What appeals to editors as being "publication-worthy" is a very subjective process, especially where poetry is concerned. 3) They do commit a "sin of omission," perhaps, in that they do not publish the famous poets whose blurbs end up on the back covers of the books they publish. But they do recommend poets for the Pushcart Prize. My late husband was seduced into the Amway cult / MLM scheme. FLP may have its flaws--they lost my last manuscript twice, for example--but I don't think it is a MLM.
Thank you for sharing, Joanne. I appreciate your insights. I agree that there are many reasons for poets (and other writers) to publish with FLP.
I'm not sure about printing costs, to be honest. Amazon is not a good example since we know how they are... but I've spoken with smaller operations that offer very good rates on printing. My sense is that overall the prices have actually gone down substantially.
The article is posed as a question for a reason. I agree that FLP does not meet *all* of the criteria for a true MLM. With that in mind, they do use some of the same tactics.
A big question I have is about Market Dominance. I see FLP and a few other large, name recognizable poetry publishers, putting out vast amounts of work each year.
I realize it takes time and effort (resources not everyone has) to track down other small, lesser known presses... still, there are many small presses and I'd love to see more poets making an attempt to publish with them before deciding to house their work with FLP, Kelsay, WordTech.
I had a book accepted by FLP once. Then there was a succession of lost emails & confusing correspondence. They accepted one title but sent a contract for a separate title. When I pointed this out to them, I received a curt email saying I was 'difficult' and withdrawing their offer to publish my book. Their contract was also full of oddities. My impression was that something was fishy. It was a bad experience from beginning to end.
Unbelievable & absurd. Thank you for sharing, Marc. These stories are important for poets & writers making the challenging decision of finding a good home for their work.
I've published two chapbooks with FLP and have no complaints. Some of my poems had previously been published in such journals as THINK, Southern Poetry Review, NELLE, and Oxford Poetry. I've won the Frost Farm Prize and been a finalist for other prizes, so ... Do I think that FLP publishes a lot? Yes. Do I think that diminishes the quality of my work? No. And on no occasion have they asked me to "recruit" other poets for them.
Disagree with your assessment here. This isn't actually how MLMs work—for it to be that, you'd have to be responsible for finding more authors, not just selling books. And FLP does select authors based on merit. Authors are always responsible for sales with a small press; they just built what's standard into a system that functions in a sustainable way and are up-front about it. They minimize their own risk and incentivize the authors for doing the work that they'd be asked to do at any press anyway, and that allows them to exist without relying on the contest model.
I do think they over-price their books, and the sustainability they've built into their model incentivizes them to publish too many authors, so there are downsides. But if you want a distributed book and don't want to spend your life burning cash on contests, they're a good thing. That's what I tell people when they ask. If you are a young person hoping to have a pipe-dream career and become a tenured Pulitzer Prize-winning poet, it's better to wait. But if you're more interested in just having the actual book in your hands and for sale, but don't want to do the work of self-publishing, it's a good deal.
I have a little note in the piece calling attention to them falling short on full on MLM since they don't incentivize you to get more authors on board.
I'm surprised this is your position about FLP being merit-based... Their acceptance rate is absurdly high from the stats I've seen.
Agreed, they do overprice their books.
Overall, I don't think we're on opposite sides of this. I don't think operations related to this should not exist... I'd rather see poets not default to FLP when there are loads and loads of other small press options.
If you want to get out a book quickly (as has been discussed on The Poetry Space__) there's always self-publication.
Hybrid publication can make sense for some.
It all depends on what the individual is looking for. My sense is that too often poets don't know what they really want out of publication. With that in mind, I think operations like FLP swoop in. "Here's an easy solution," they seem to say.
I like this statement a lot:
"If you are a young person hoping to have a pipe-dream career and become a tenured Pulitzer Prize-winning poet, it's better to wait. But if you're more interested in just having the actual book in your hands and for sale, but don't want to do the work of self-publishing, it's a good deal."
What is the acceptance rate? And how many books do they publish per year, do you know?
I've read a good number of their books, and don't see the quality is lacking relative to what other presses are publishing really (though I do think we publish way too many books and the vast majority are boring enough to make for a watered down gruel of an industry ... but they don't seem any worse in this regard than anywhere else).
I hadn't come across this interview before with Leah Maines, Publisher of FLP.
Tim, you and I are both very fond of chapbooks. I'm not used to hearing FLP books categorized this way. That would be positive if price-structured accordingly. Unfortunately, this looks like double talk. There is mention of publishing "over 100 chapbooks a year" and then just a few questions later, "Actually, we publish over 100 books per year." My takeaway is that they'll call the "book" whatever anyone wants depending on the question asked.
I don't have enough data on the acceptance percentage. I saw Kelsay books has ~90% acceptance on Duotrope (though limited submission info is available). I expect it's similar. I'd be eager to from others about their experience. Frankly, I'd be very interested to hear work about work that was turned down by FLP.
https://winningwriters.com/the-best-free-literary-contests/interviews/leah-maines-senior-editor-of-finishing-line-press
I am mixed on presses like FLP. So many of my friends have cranked out books here – some of very low quality both in the feel of the collection (I know folks who just take their last 100 poems and submit those as a "collection") and the copy editing. They saturate the market with supply of books and, much like instagram poets, define the market down in a way that I think is troubling.
That said, the urge to publish seems almost a biological imperative and FLP help folks find that outlet. And there are a number of fine poets, with all the right credentials and awards and prior pubs, who just want get a book out there without the two or three year wait they might face with their traditional high-status publishers. I am holding a fine FLP volume in hand from poet Dan Bellm. It is a treasure of a collection from an excellent poet. And yes, it is blurbed by Ilya Kaminsky and Alicia Ostriker.
Thanks for weighing in, Dick. I always appreciate your thoughtful reflections.
I have to agree with Tim on the harsh realities of publishing. No opinion on FLP quality yet.
Finishing Line Press is not an MLM. FLP has never asked authors to recruit other writers. FLP does not ask writers to pay anything for publishing or promoting their books. FLP is upfront with those they accept by telling them they are expected to let people know they have a book forthcoming. They don’t ask authors to pay for advertising. They just ask authors to let people know (via social media and word of mouth) that the book is forthcoming. As a small press, they don’t have a large advertising budget. However, FLP does run paid ads on social media for every book they publish. I know this because I am the one who pays for the ads.
FLP rejects far more books than they accept. At one point the acceptance rate was 8%; however, that might not be the rate now.
The endorsements are for the books published. However, I do have some endorsements for my work at FLP:
"Having a book accepted is a stressful time. Leah Maines made the procedure easy and painless. Her instructions were easy to follow and she answered my questions fully. It was a pleasure working with her and her crew at Finishing Line Press." ~James Fowler
Leah Maines is the intrepid publisher of Finishing Line Press, perhaps the premier independent chapbook poetry house in the United States at this time. Innovative, but solidly grounded in her vision and organization, she has created a fine press and allowed it to flourish under her wise guidance. I have written a number of jacket comments for books she has selected, and it has been my privilege to endorse her writers. ~Molly Peacock
And there are many more like this on my LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leahmaines
I started FLP in 2000 as a way to promote and publish poetry. As a mixed-race LatinX woman, my focus has been to publish underrepresented voices of the day: women, LBGTQ+ people, and people of color. When I first started publishing books, the majority of those being published were old white men. I wanted to do my part to change that. I hope I have been successful.
My goal has never been to scam anyone or take advantage of anyone. My goal was to publish poetry. I’ve always been very upfront about the need to do self promotion. In fact, I wrote the section: The Business of Poetry: The Art of Self-Promotion in the book The Craft & Business Of Writing: Essential Tools For Writing Success (Writers Digest Books) way back in 2008. The editors of Writers Digest Books approached me to write this section because of the success FLP has had in selling poetry books. At no time have I ever asked any of our authors to pay for advertising or pay for their book’s production costs. There is absolutely no cost to the author. I’ve just been honest for the need to let people know they have a book forthcoming.
Please forgive me if there are typos or poor grammar above. I had a stroke in 2012, and I’m not 100% any longer. However, I felt the need to comment. (No, I no longer do any editing for FLP. We have other, more skilled, editors for that. I just read the manuscripts. I’m still capable of determining work of merit.)
Leah,
Thank you for taking the time to write this thorough response. I fully appreciate your words and what you've shared.
Very interesting to hear that, at one point, the acceptance rate was 8%.
After writing this piece, I've had several illuminating conversations. One major takeaway is that many poets really truly just want to publish their work to share with their literary friends. Many have said that working with FLP is a good experience and that that, especially for the aforementioned purpose, FLP produces a high quality product at a good value. Given the expenses common in both hybrid and self-publishing, I think FLP offers a terrific service to those seeking to get their work out in the world.
Given your work with FLP, I respect that you are protective of your authors and stand behind the work that you have deemed meritorious enough to publish.
I remain interested in hearing more. I'd especially like to hear from other small press editors. The number of books that FLP puts out in a year is atypical and I wonder about the process.
Mark, Thank you. I appreciate your response.
I’m sorry to say, but most of what you described falls under the heading of standard book publicity. Just as a journalist and editor, from the PR and marketing side, I can tell you that most book publishers expect their authors to also be promoters of their work. That’s especially true for small publishers with small audiences, since they skimp on marketing in favor of production. I actually started building a following online years ago so that publishers would be more interested if I ever want to publish a book. That strategy has succeeded pretty well, even without the book.
To be honest, poetry books, small rock shows, community theater; pretty much anything artistic without grant backing, has long been MLM-like when it comes to business. The most common purchasers of poetry books? People who attend readings. Who doesn’t invite their family, friends and loved ones to their readings? It sucks, and I prefer nonprofit, but it’s the business side of art. It’s really always sucked.
You made a really good point about the value of readings and the similarity to selling merch at shows (for musicians/bands) and certainty (as an aside) exhibitions for visual artists. That being said, for poets, the material is often family-unfriendly that it can be tough to sell books to people who are in-group.
Based on many recent conversations, I'm sold on FLP (even given calling it a book mill) for the sake of being able to hand physical copies to those in your sphere who want to keep up with your personal journey in the arts. My concerns remain about pre-sales and the price of FLP books being too high.
Oh dear.
I've had three chapbooks published by FLP over the past seven years. They do have a high acceptance rate, probably in the neighborhood of 65%. But I have poet colleagues whose work they've rejected. I would also like to respond to several points Mark made. 1) Their books are perhaps somewhat overpriced, but printing costs have risen, just like everything else. 2) What appeals to editors as being "publication-worthy" is a very subjective process, especially where poetry is concerned. 3) They do commit a "sin of omission," perhaps, in that they do not publish the famous poets whose blurbs end up on the back covers of the books they publish. But they do recommend poets for the Pushcart Prize. My late husband was seduced into the Amway cult / MLM scheme. FLP may have its flaws--they lost my last manuscript twice, for example--but I don't think it is a MLM.
Thank you for sharing, Joanne. I appreciate your insights. I agree that there are many reasons for poets (and other writers) to publish with FLP.
I'm not sure about printing costs, to be honest. Amazon is not a good example since we know how they are... but I've spoken with smaller operations that offer very good rates on printing. My sense is that overall the prices have actually gone down substantially.
The article is posed as a question for a reason. I agree that FLP does not meet *all* of the criteria for a true MLM. With that in mind, they do use some of the same tactics.
A big question I have is about Market Dominance. I see FLP and a few other large, name recognizable poetry publishers, putting out vast amounts of work each year.
I realize it takes time and effort (resources not everyone has) to track down other small, lesser known presses... still, there are many small presses and I'd love to see more poets making an attempt to publish with them before deciding to house their work with FLP, Kelsay, WordTech.
So much worse than I imagined.
I had a book accepted by FLP once. Then there was a succession of lost emails & confusing correspondence. They accepted one title but sent a contract for a separate title. When I pointed this out to them, I received a curt email saying I was 'difficult' and withdrawing their offer to publish my book. Their contract was also full of oddities. My impression was that something was fishy. It was a bad experience from beginning to end.
Unbelievable & absurd. Thank you for sharing, Marc. These stories are important for poets & writers making the challenging decision of finding a good home for their work.
Okay: one more shady place to avoid.
I've published two chapbooks with FLP and have no complaints. Some of my poems had previously been published in such journals as THINK, Southern Poetry Review, NELLE, and Oxford Poetry. I've won the Frost Farm Prize and been a finalist for other prizes, so ... Do I think that FLP publishes a lot? Yes. Do I think that diminishes the quality of my work? No. And on no occasion have they asked me to "recruit" other poets for them.